Eat In or Dine Out: Agency Collaboration and Pizza with CMO Kathy Klingler

At mealtime, we’re all faced with a choice: Eat in, or dine out? Most brands wrestle with a similar question when it comes to getting stuff done: Make it in-house, or outsource to an agency?

On Eat In or Dine Out, top marketing leaders step into the kitchen with Jen Harrington, CEO and founder of HATCH, for fresh, unprocessed conversations about what it takes to build a great internal team or hire the right agency partners.

For our first episode, serial CMO Kathy Klingler joins Jen to talk about assembling the perfect agency roster. Spoiler: It’s not quite as easy as ordering a pizza. Watch the first episode and don’t forget to follow HATCH on LinkedIn to catch upcoming episodes!

 

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TRANSCRIPT

Jen: Hello, I’m Jen Harrington. I am the founder and CEO of HATCH, and welcome to my kitchen for our show Eat In or Dine Out! Today I am thrilled to introduce our guest, the lovely Kathy Klingler.

Kathy: Hello, my friend. Thank you for having me.

Jen: Kathy is a dear friend and a Serial Client and Serial CMO. You’ve led organizations with very large marketing groups, as well as smaller, more nimble teams. In all of those situations, you either built internal teams, partnered with outsourced agencies and consultants, or a little bit of both.

Kathy: Yes, that’s right.

Jen: So for today’s show, we’ll talk about your experiences building teams internally, or the joys of partnering with external agencies and independent resources. Which would you like — Eat In or Dine Out?

Kathy: Dine Out.

Jen: All right, guys, Dine Out it is! We’re waiting for takeout… 

Kathy: I can’t wait to hear what you’ve ordered. 

Jen: It’s delicious, but it’s better to talk before you have food in your teeth. So let’s start from the beginning.

AGENCY COLLABORATION

Jen: When I first met you, it was during your time at Santander. That was your first CMO role, and it was a big transformation — a global company entering the U.S. for the first time, with zero brand awareness.

Kathy: Yes, it was a big endeavor. Coming into the U.S. meant we had no brand recognition, and we needed a strong internal team as well as agency partners. HATCH helped us with business-as-usual B2B marketing, while other agencies managed rebranding 3,000 branches, launching new products, ATM wraps, and advertising campaigns. It was a complex ecosystem of internal teams, large agencies, and smaller partners, all needing to collaborate closely.

Jen: That sounds incredibly complex. And then at Blue Cross, the model was a little different?

Kathy: Yes. By that point, I had more experience and knowledge about what worked. We had a great internal team, a full in-house agency, an agency of record, and a roster of partners working with us to relaunch the brand. It was more about aligning the internal team with external expertise.

Jen: And then when you moved to Rapid7, it was a whole different scenario?

Kathy: Absolutely. Rapid7, like other tech and SaaS companies I’ve worked with, required agility. Large global brands have bigger budgets and resources, but smaller or faster-moving companies require efficiency. You have to audit the team, identify gaps, and decide what needs to be handled internally versus externally. Often that means bringing in contractors or a few trusted agencies for specialized projects.

Jen: I think our pizza is here! And would you look at that, delivered by none other than our very own Creative Director, Doug Murphy. Thanks Doug! 

Kathy: Wow this looks amazing! Pizza, no wonder you were worried about getting something in my teeth. 

HOW TO DECIDE WHO TO BRING IN

Jen: How do you make the decision to hire full-time versus bringing in agencies or freelancers?

Kathy: It depends on the urgency, the skill gaps, and budget. In tech, you don’t always have the time for a long RFP process. I often start by assessing the current team, bringing in partners for specific needs, and then deciding whether hiring full-time or continuing with external support makes sense. Flexibility is key.

Jen: So there’s no one-size-fits-all model.

Kathy: Exactly. Titles and roles can vary widely, so it’s more about capabilities and outcomes than labels. Having a mix of internal staff, freelancers, and agencies allows you to scale and adapt quickly.

Jen: I love that insight. And it seems like the consultative approach with agencies is really helpful.

Kathy: Absolutely. The ability to collaborate with different types of partners, and to be nimble in applying the right mix of talent, is a hallmark of a successful team.

Jen: Did you enjoy the pizza?

Kathy: Loved it.

Jen: It’s Union Park Pizza in Boston — highly recommended. Thank you for joining me for another episode of Eat In or Dine Out. Please like, comment, subscribe, and follow HATCH on LinkedIn.

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